Podcast link Toon Talk #6
Show notes:
Coming
Transcript:
Sandra Ni Chonaola 0:11
Hey everybody this is Sandra, welcome to show number six of Toon Talk. I noticed mark my whole career I'd seen him once or twice during my visits to Disney and I might have mostly to push a smile or a Hello his way. But it took me quite a few years to finally pick up the courage to ask him to sit with me and share that animation. I'm so glad that I did. Mark is an amazing person with a remarkable understanding of animation which leads to the unsparing appeal and sincerity we love in his work. His time at Disney spends his entire 36 year career having worked on such films The Little Mermaid by colgin Rescuers Down Under a Latin Milan, The Lion King, the Tigger movie, Winnie the Pooh, Princess and the Frog, right way up to frozen. Mark has great stories about his time at Disney Feature studios, as well as clear and viable advice for practicing the art of animation. I could not be more grateful to mark for spending the time and being so open with his knowledge. So please enjoy my conversation about animation with Merkin. I hope you get as much out of it as I did.
Do you have anything else?
Mark Henn 1:11
I was just looking for some rounds. You're gonna do a talk at Cal Arts on Friday. And I was just looking for an old photograph that I thought I had readily handy to use, but I couldn't find it so. So I used to teach your character is it just I don't teach in Cal Arts? It's I've got I grew up and when invited I do some talks occasionally doing a panel the training departments as they go up about once a quarter and take a group of artists that were you know, former Cal Arts alone are currently alum former students. And I guess they talked to were you teaching 20? Or was it the type of I can't remember hearing for that. It came to Florida. And so I met Ted in Florida saw and I he was one of my one of my younger ones that I usually put him on the right path. We are testing testing. Look at that thing. Quite a fancy little two little thing.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 2:25
I was asked yesterday about the Florida Sr. But we get to that a little bit later on. And to start with I was just wondering where it all started for you and you knew you wanted to be an animator? Ah, well, I think Yeah.
Mark Henn 2:42
Trying to keep it simple here. It was a it was a boyhood dream. And I was a small boy. I grew up in Ohio. So it started in Ohio, Dayton, Ohio to be specific. And I there were two things. When people asked me and I have to tell the story. One was seeing Cinderella buy wasn't the original release, but it was a subsequent probably its release which at the time they would release films about every seven or eight years. So I saw in the early 60s but Cinderella left a big impression on me I love drawing as a kid my mom always takes takes credit saying that she used to put a pencil and paper in my hands to keep me quiet in church. So I just be sitting there doodling away. But it's it's something I've as long as I can remember I've always always drew always loved drawing and then I started seeing Disney films. So I saw Cinderella first was the one that I can remember. And that left a big impression and then the other one that loved arguably even a little bigger impression was I was at a camp Indian guides which was a YMCA club for boys. And we had a weekend camp and the one of the weekends entertainment was two weeks screened. We watched reluctant dragon not just the short we watched the entire feature film. Don't ask me why I just want you to stop and think about it. It seems really obscure to be screaming at but I remember saying at this camp, I said swear I remember but watch The Reluctant dragon which is a was a propaganda On the wall, I had a bad word. But that was, you know, it was a film that he put together to kind of answer a lot of people's questions about how animation was made. And he was always getting asked that in the industry and by people that how do your films are they made bah bah bah. So they put together this film. And it follows the somewhat comical antics of Robert benchley comes to the studio, he's kind of badgered by his wife to come to the studio, and set up a meeting with Walt Disney because they've got this children's book, The Reluctant dragon that she thinks would make a great short and you should go down to the Disney Studios and pitch it to Walt and tell him they should make this movie. That's the premise. So he comes to the studio. And she drops him off and says, I'm going shopping. I'll see you later. So she drops him off. And then he's turned loose in the studio while they pair him up with this rather of noxious studio page, who's there to give him the official tour by the book reading all the facts and figures, how many bricks and all this and eventually very quickly tires of this young man, and through both his wanting to get away from him, but also just some mishaps and steps along the way, they get separated. So the rest of the movie is him trying to avoid this page. Going from department department kind of hiding out. So along the way, you see several of the major departments and functions of how animation is developed. That's why he stumbles into the story department. That's where he they pitched him. The idea for baby wings. That's where that whole little short is, is recorded. The other thing is that but the thing that struck me was he ends up ducking he's he's hiding from the page and he ducks into an animators office, which he doesn't know that but he ducks into this office. And here's, here's Ward Campbell, norm Ferguson for any more, I think and those three for sure. And there may have been one other one. I can't I can't think of it. But anyway, those three for sure. He ducks in your office. He's like, hey, fellas, do you mind if I hide out in here for a minute? And they're like, Oh, sure. Come on in. So and in that time that he's in the animation office, they show him? You see norm Ferguson doing some animation with Pluto.
They show green on a movie Oh, they show him the short film. How how to ride a horse with goofy. But the thing that really cemented his long answer for but the thing that really cemented it for me was he walks over to word Kimball's desk and here's the word Kimball sitting there drawing. finishing a drawing a goofy and he's looking over his shoulder. And he started saying, Oh, you mind if I watch not sure? Come on watch. And he's like, oh, why do you draw three fingers and this and this and that. And then you have a word finishes the drawing. And it takes this one drawing piece of paper. Any says turns to Robert Benjamin says Do you want to see it move now? And he goes, sure. So he takes this one drawing and puts it on a large stack of drawings and picks it up and starts flipping it and whistling a tune and when and Goofy comes to life and starts dancing around. And I was just my eyes, my mind just, I was just blown away to see a drawing which I love to draw now. come to life. dance around. I was just wow. And that's when I really got the bug bit. And I just ever since that point, I just that's I grew up just saying I want to grow up to be a Disney animator. And so you know, I had no idea what that meant. I had no idea how that was going to play out. But the good Lord really, you know hindsight. Now when I look back, it was quite an interesting journey. So as I've talked to many college groups and high school kids, I recently spoke to some high school kids a few weeks ago and told them that I've got my four years of college at three different schools. And but I have no degree so that's that was my journey, you know, but I thankfully have a long career to have One thing on my resume, basically, because I've not worked anywhere else. So I've been very, very blessed to be here. But But yeah, it started for me it's been, and I'm not alone. A lot of lot of people that work here have similar types of stories. I think the probably the most consistent thing is that most of the people that work here and have worked here that I've known, all wanted to be here, this isn't obviously the kind of job that you just show up one day and say, I'll try it. You know, everybody has a Disney story in their lives that somehow has led them to to being a part of the studio, which is pretty cool. That's my story. And I'm sticking to it.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 10:56
So the time between college and working at Disney is people are often interested how long it takes to get, you know, first job. So how long did it take? You?
Mark Henn 11:08
know, I was just applying or did something I Well, I I applied directly to the studio. Once I got through high school and started to get into college. I, I started, I applied directly to the studio on three separate occasions. And I didn't or no, no, no, we're over the course of my four years of college, and I applied directly to the studio. After my first year in college. I was majoring in art. And I thought I had, you know, a portfolio that would impress Disney. And I sent it in and they were impressed enough to say, Let's see some more. And they said this is what we're looking for in a portfolio. So that was the first application. So I at that point realized I needed to get a little stronger art education. So between my first and second year of college, I had major back surgery. So I couldn't. I spent the summer convalescing at home. And I was going to transfer to Ohio State. But I couldn't work through the summer. So I couldn't earn enough of my part of the money I needed for college. But my dad worked at the local community college, he was a professor and he said, Well, why don't you just come take classes at community college, which, you know, since I'm a teacher, I can get pretty much tuition free. I'll introduce it to the art teacher and you guys, you can tell me what you're looking for him. So that's what I did. So I went to junior college for the next year, and worked and got into pretty good art program there and had a really good instructor who understood what Disney was looking for. And, and so I started doing that. So probably after my first semester, I thought, well, I've got it now. So I sent another application directly to the studio for a second time. And that time they said, you know, basically, you know, stay in school and you know, get more education and all this kind of stuff. You're not ready. So I was like are. So I, I finished out the year as junior college. And at the end of that year, I sent a third portfolio thinking okay, I've got it now I'm better, I'm better than I was, I'm going to send them. So I sent a third portfolio to the studio. And the letter is long disappeared. But it was a third rejection letter, but it was from my gentlemen at the time, his name was Don duck wall, who I never met.
Unknown Speaker 14:12
And he
Mark Henn 14:15
he sent me a letter, a rejection letter. And within that letter was this sentence that I burned into my mind that you know, basically paraphrase saying that it wasn't that I wasn't a good artist or wasn't talented, but that they felt I didn't have what it takes to travel the narrow roads that their animators travel. And I was like so at that point, I realized I needed to get I really wanted to get more art based education self in the back of a friend of mine in high school had given me a catalog to Cal Arts. Back when I was a sophomore and I decided like oh yeah, this would be This would be fabulous. But I can't, you know, I couldn't afford to go to California and I just stuck in a drawer. And in the back of an art magazine, I found a school in Denver called the Rocky Mountain School of Art. It says specialists and figure drawing, and that was kind of the area I need to concentrate on. So I pulled out the Cal Arts catalog and looked at and went, Oh, man, that's perfect. I mean, I wish I could go to Disney character program. They had pictures of students. He learned directly from Disney artists and all this. And I was like, oh, that would be perfect. So long story short, I, I essentially took the same portfolio that had been rejected by the studio for the third time, and tweaking a few things, use that and applied to the Rocky Mountain school in Denver, and Cal Arts. And I just sat back and waited. And I got accepted to the Rocky Mountain school first. And I was like, Okay, great. That's fine. But I really wanted to go to galleries. And then finally, I got the letter from Cal Arts. And I opened the letter up, and I didn't get past the first word where it just said, congratulations. And I was like, I was so excited. And so I was accepted into Cal Arts. And so you know, it was kind of a animals in and around, but it was kind of a backdoor into the studio, because they had a really strong relationship with the studio. So when I went to Cal Arts, I was in the fourth fourth year of the animation program and only been, you know, was just four years old. You're gonna have to jump right in. If you're in the fourth year or the fourth year, the program running Did you get to jump to that? I was in the fourth day, the the animation program at Cal Arts was only four years old. So I was in year I was here for, but you had to start in? Like, as in year one that would have been Yeah, that was considered year one. But you know, it was it was Yeah, it was the fourth year of the program. And yeah, I would have been, I was a first year student, even though it was my third year in terms of the college life. So yeah, four years three school side a year to State College here to junior college and two years at Cal Arts. So so the whole thing then was, you know, you were now involved with former Disney artists that were our instructors. We were learning everything that had to do with animation, Disney Animation, because you had also the Disney program, but you also had Jules is program, the film graphics, it was called in the building as well. And so then after my second year at Cal Arts, each year, the studio would send up, they would review students work. And so the pattern at the time was they generally didn't take first year students unless they were exceptional. Your second third year were kind of your prime years and unless you chose to stay your fourth year. fourth year it was kind of like this bell curve saw the prime years where your second third year and if you were there your through your fourth year, that wasn't of your own plan, your own volition, then chances are you weren't going to get hired by that point. So that was kind of the the, the atmosphere. So I did obviously I didn't get hired at my first year. Actually, one of the guys in our class did one of one of which was unusual.
And so went home for the summer normal, pretty much normal life work came back to the second year. And I started my second year. I had lunch with jack Hanna, who was the head of the department. We had lunch in the cafeteria was kind of our early days of school hadn't really started yet but I was there and he was there. And we had lunch and he told me he says you know he said you're you're just what the studios with the floor and I was just like, I mean that's one way to start your your second year but anyway to answer your question. So in the spring times when they have the the review of students work And so those people, artists from the studio would come up, look at this. And then you'd sit and wait. So it's like the minor leagues, you know, you're hoping that you get a phone call. And so that's like a parole. So School's out. May ish, I think. So they had the show. And I was one of half a dozen people that were selected that year. So it was just a matter of waiting until they were ready to take me on now they took Mark Jindal was in my class. And he, in his last year kind of shifted his focus from character to effects animation. So he built his student film largely around doing effects animation. And so he was hired in the same group, but he started ahead of us because at the time, they had a greater need for effects animator starting sooner. And so he started in May. So and I started in June. So I waited, I don't know, a month or so just waiting for the, you know, when they told me, you know, my training period, and when it was the start, so I started June 2, so it was just I said it was about a month. So who is your mentors when you came here? Well, when I came here, the way it was set up, you had Eric Larsen was was our, our mentor trainer. And then the mid mid early to mid 70s, the studio realized that through retirement and death, that a lot of you know, the original generation nine old men generation were Yeah, retiring or dying, you know, other than that it was going away. So Fox and a hand was in production. And also the other thing that happened between my first and second year, Cal Arts was the big departure of Bluth in his group, the big departure. So, and they were right in the middle of production on Fox and Hound. So Frank canali. That was the last film that they worked on. And it does time the production is, you know, expanded over a couple of years, and they weren't worried about release dates, as much as they are today. So that was the last time Frank and Ollie worked on. They did some stuff early on, were working with the animators, the young animators, so you got a lot of time with them. I didn't because they had left or they had retired, and, and actually physically had moved upstairs to the second floor, and we're starting to write the illusion of life. So they had an office set up there that that was their home base for writing their first book. In the meantime, I came in and I was involved with maybe the last 669 months of is that probably more like six months of production on?
While I was inbetweening, I was a rough in between or see what happened. So you came into production, or you came into the Eric's training program. You did four weeks with Eric basically did another little film under his guidance. And that was reviewed. And if they liked what they saw, then you did another four weeks with him. So you you would do a total of eight weeks officially under Eric's wings. And after eight weeks, if you pass that second test, then they would decide where to plug you in into the production. So for most everybody, you went either into clean up or you went into animation on the rough side. So you went in as a rough inbetweeners for some animator in his unit or you went into cleanup as a inbetweeners person. So that's what happened to me. I was they liked what I had done and Glen took a shine to my work and so he had me come on as his new rough assistant rough in between here. So I worked with Glenn three, four months, six months until, you know, the end of Fox and Hound so you know, I worked on the same movie with Frank and Ollie but I they just worked early on, and then you had the big Bluth depart You're in the middle of that production, which I'm, you know, really, you know, elevated people like Glenn and Randy Cartwright gave them a big break, john Musker was animating at the time, Jerry Reese, Chris Bach, a lot of people like that, you know, because of that void of artists that left that opened the door for them, then they became the key players. And then I came in behind them as their support. So. And then when I, you know, Glenn had finished and I was, you know, we were essentially done animating, then they threw me over into effects to help, you know, it was kind of an all hands on deck to get the thing finished. So I did I help in between doing effects and some little things here. And there it was, everybody pitched in, to lend a hand. So that was a long answer to a short question. Sorry,
Sandra Ni Chonaola 25:56
three ways or, you know, you get some great stories. And so I don't mind it. You've been around an awfully long time. So I was wondering what advice would have for younger animators for longevity in the industry?
Mark Henn 26:07
Well, that's, you know, that's a good question. Advice for longevity? I think. Primarily, the short answer is quality, quality, your work, quality works going to wite out. I'm a very loyal dog, to this studio, this is I said, this is where I grew up wanting to be and I've been here 34 years now. And so I think, I mean, maybe not the best. I don't like, you know, tooting my own horn. But it was always my goal to do the very best I could. Because the studio demands that art form demands that. And, and so I think that, you know, is is critical. In this day and age, I still think that's critical. Quality is always going to be job one, I think you might add in the mix, flexibility in terms of different kinds of jobs, you might be able to do, yeah. But I still think it boils down to, you know, if you're really good at what you do that wherever you're working, they're going to want to keep you up and you know, you you want to be a good person. I mean, you play well with others, you know, I mean, that's that's also important, because I've seen a lot of incredibly talented people come through and but they weren't always necessarily the most pleasant co workers. And I think that's that's a small part, but it is a part. Because I've been in a lot of meetings and evaluations of staff and those things come up. So yeah, quality and yeah, just being able to play well with others, I think is a key. Sounds like good advice. Yeah. That's the best way I can. So over your whole career. What do you feel is the most challenging shot for you? Show? Well, Shadow show, shorter show? Oh, I don't know. Every show has its challenges every character every scene. Certainly, making the jump from 2d to 3d on meet the Robinsons was a real challenge. And I almost was fired. I almost lost my job. But I was able to hang in there. And I think I did. For the time golf things considered I only had about a year of training. I'm not a big technical person. I don't, I don't I mean, I'm not opposed to technology. I just my guess my one of my biggest pet peeves in life is when I see things that get so seemingly to me unnecessarily complicated. And that's kind of complicated is the word that goes with it. And I wish that it was a lot simpler and a little more intuitive. Because I think least with my experience on me to Robinson's the joy and thrill of bringing a character to life was still there. It's just the means to that end was much more painful and frustrating and but it's here to stay. I mean, I can't I can't argue that. And so people ask me all the time parents, you know, what do my kids do? All right, and I tell him you're going to need, you're going to need computer training, because it's the tool of the day. And if you can blend that with a traditional background and have animation, that I think you're going to be slightly ahead of the game, because you want to train yourself as an artist. And if if animation is your bag, then I think you really want to train spend time training and studying traditional animation. I think that's, that's important because the computer is just a tool.
And, you know, we have a lot of people here that are incredibly talented with the tool, and have the heart and drive to have an animator, but aren't necessarily artists. In that sense, you know, and I've had many tell me they wish they could draw. And I think there's, it doesn't prevent you from being a good CG animator, but I think it does help in terms of helping the animator, visualize and craft, the animation and the performance. I mean, arguably, again, both computers and drawing are just the means to the end. And the end is the performance and the character coming to live.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 31:31
I was gonna ask you a little bit around, we can jump to an hour about working on frozen, if I sell some of your drawing over to Cintiq. And the poses and I was wondering, you know, did you find it difficult to or damage that they found difficult to communicate and you have such a traditional sense, and they didn't really understand? Well,
Mark Henn 31:49
I don't know that it's a matter of communicating. What I did on frozen is largely what I've always done as a supervising animator. So if you were in my unit, and you had a scene for me to look at, I'd either look at a test, or you'd bring me we'd sit down, as we're doing now in my office, and you bring in your drawings, and I put it down, and I'd flip through it and make changes and say, Oh, this might be a stronger pose, or you know, all those kinds of things. So, in one sense, I'm doing what I've always done as a supervisor.
Unknown Speaker 32:26
But
Mark Henn 32:29
I'm not completely, you know, in that supervisory capacity on that film, because you have an animation soup. And then you have four or five night kids, I think there were five supervising animators, so I was brought in as kind of a consultants, coach, mentor, whatever you want to label me to, you know, just sit back, and I would just look at the animation, look at what was being done. And just we've talked about ideas, I would say, well, this might be a stronger pose. And I could draw on this antique and say, do it this way, maybe here's a better expression. Or if there was a conversation going between the directors and the animators, and they're saying, you know, try, you know, can you do this or that, and then I could kind of illustrate what they were talking about. And then everybody go, Oh, yeah, they didn't do it like that, you know, do it like the way mark drew it. And so that's Yeah, it's, it's, it's a different role. But I really, I enjoyed working with the with the younger animators. And I think these based on feedback that I've gotten, I think they enjoyed having me around as well. Because I really, you know, the the deadlines on these films, productions have gotten really crazy. And part of my job I freely felt was to really be an encouragement to everybody, and keep them positive, keep them excited about what they're doing, because you really can hit a wall on these really hard production schedule sometimes. And really, they have very great talented people. I've heard
Sandra Ni Chonaola 34:23
from some of the guys that you tell classes about know posing and stuff like that. Yeah, analyzing the old man stuff.
Mark Henn 34:30
Yeah. So I did. Yeah. So and then throughout, you know, over the course of, you know, the production I would do do some lectures occasionally, whether they would approach me and say, could you do something about this topic? Or if I came up with an idea I would, I would do that. So So yeah, it's it's it's a little different role. I mean, I, you know, I actually did a little piece of animation for the film, which was largely an effect Part of it got, they changed it and part of it stays. So it's really buried. Huh? Oh, it's part of little else's vision when at the very beginning in the sky and I animated some, some characters they changed. We get to see that on the DVD extras. No, it's in the film. Yeah, it's in the film, they said they changed it, they did, they changed because it was a silhouette of Elsa and an eye silhouette of some crowds. And they for whatever reason, they changed what I did on the Elsa and put something else in. But they kept the the crowd animation I did where the Papa trolls as you know, you're going to have great powers and but these powers are going to be can be very dangerous in the crowd at first is like it's just thrill, simple silhouettes, but it was kind of fun to do. So, but it was neat to watch the movie because I felt like I realized I pretty much it seems like I either saw or touched or was involved with just about every single shot in the movie. And that was that was kind of neat. And, you know, we kibitz ideas. And I know Chris, Jen was a new director. So there were times when if Chris wasn't there, you know, I could be this little voice behind her and just reassuring her i think that you know, what she was looking at was going to be fine. He was going to work and so I just pitched in and helped wherever, wherever I could. And then I do a lot of stuff with merchandise and consumer products, they send a lot of stuff through my comes through my office, you know, check this make sure it's on model, what do you think of the pose? And I just do a lot, a lot of little things like that. So. So when you're working your way through a scene, what are you thinking, What's your process? Well, I've did a lecture, over the course of my career, I've created this monster, of being known for, hopefully quality work, but also being able to be rather prolific. And it was kind of both unconscious and conscious that I work to develop my way of working because early on, I'd sit in a movie and I realized that, you know, you spend a year or two working on a film in those early days, and, and you only had just a handful of scenes in the movie, I just felt like man, I want to be more involved, I want to have more input and make more of an impression and have. And just so from that point of view, it was conscious that I was aware of needing to be more prolific. But on the other side, it just, it just kind of came as a over the time, over the years of doing it. So I've boiled it down. I had to do a lecture about it once people like wanted, do a lecture and tell us how you go so fast. So unlike a lot of things, when you are asked to kind of break it down and put it down on black and white and paper. You know, he kind of forces you to think about it. And so I kind of came up with this. an acronym I guess is the word of speed as P E, D.
And so I broke that down. Each letter represents kind of a step or a thought process that I have. So S is stands for spending time spending time getting to know the story. Familiarize yourself with the characters and the story and the storyboards and all that. So that's that's s and leading out of that is p which is planning and that gets down to more brass tacks of when you get a scene handed to you. The biggest mistake every animator has made including myself is to get so excited and just start animating without any plan. So P stands for planning and that's for me and for a lot of us that we were taught and that means thumbnailing sitting down taking the time Whether it's an hour or half a day or several days to plan your scene, but plan, okay, and then that's the P. So you got s&p, the first E is execution, in terms of actually how you animate. So I keep a fairly organized cockpit, my desk and everything's kind of tidy, and in arm's reach. And that was actually something I did innately. But I was it was reinforced to me by Barry cook, who was an effects animator who went on to direct co direct Milan, but he did a lecture once where he had the same thought that he felt it was really important to have a very organized work station. So that's part of it. So but then, in 2d animation, I, as a young animator, I got really frustrated with myself, because I drew well enough, not as good as some, not as poorly as others, but I was kind of in the middle. But I was very quick to I could scribble something out really loose and fast. And then I spent, pass after pass after pass, tightening up my drawings. And I get really frustrated, you know, redrawing things, you know, 234 times, because it was just, it was just crazy. So, and I spent a lot of time in my early days, on a on a adventure of trying to see and understand well, how rough is rough and how tight was tight, because there were some animators that drew gray loosely, and other animators and drew very tightly, and everybody seemed to, you know, get get to the same end. But I wanted to know how Frank Drew, I wanted to know how all I drew and melt and john Well, I mean, so I spent a lot of time digging into the Morgan finding rough animation wherever we could. And I put together a folder binder of I started making photocopies of things just just to see, well, how rough did Frank really draw, you know, and how rough did all he really draw and melt all that. And so I have my catalog of roughs. And so I tried to boil my process down to initially a very first rough pass, that you would show the directors, get them to buy off on the idea and everything basic, basic animation. And then once they did that, then I'd go through just a second pass of a tie down. So I tried to get my process down to just two steps, doing a rough pass. And then once that was approved, doing a final tie down, and then I was done, I could send it off. So I tried to get that boiled down to two steps that were that's the first date. So we have SP the second he is evaluation. And I, as Ted will probably tell you spent a lot of time just, you know, looking at my scenes or looking at his scenes or anybody else that I was working with. And and just thinking about it, looking at it, thinking about it, you know, is the animation working is the weight, right is the dialogue good. I mean, that's just part of the process, you know, so evaluation is a critical part. I mean, that's partly as you're working, because you're evaluating it and deciding, Okay, I'm ready to show the directors, or Okay, they've seen the rough and they've approved it, now I'm tying it down, I don't want to lose any of the vitality that I had in the rough stage before I tie it down. But I want to make sure that there's enough information there. So cleanup isn't you know, yelling and screaming at me.
So, evaluation is kind of this next E. So you have s p, E, D and D stands for discipline, which is the discipline to do as it is to to, to to stay on that track because even though productions change and you know, you get different characters and every scene is different you've everything gets filtered to that same basic approach and and certainly some scenes go through like crazy and other themes the opposite and you're just fight claw and yet battle for every frame every drawing and then it's still gonna do that. Well, not so much anymore, because I'm not animating as much But yeah, certainly in some shorts. Now. I want to talk about this. Yeah, I've worked Mickey was the last thing I animated on but I'll certainly you No, yeah, but it gives you a base. So that's kind of a default. And, and inevitably, when you get into trouble, I've either skipped over one of those things, or I didn't plan as thoroughly as I should have, or I didn't evaluate it. I mean, it's just, if I get off of that, you know, I miss my discipline the D, sometimes, you know, all you comes back and bite you.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 45:29
This isn't the kind of a tricky question to ask, I don't know how to really narrow it down. But I was wondering what you feel is the essence of a shot a good show, for I recently saw Glen Kane had the seven essentials to animating or something like that. And some of them were animate from the heart and animate as if you're sculpting and so on and so forth. And I thought, did you have anything that you felt was like, you really wanted to get into shots? Or you felt needed? Yeah. Good one. That makes sense.
Mark Henn 45:55
Yeah. Well, it's, it's it's believability. It's what Eric used his word that we all picked up with sincerity. And that's not an a sugary, sweet, you know, surface. emotion that's that genuineness a believability? And I think, you know, and it depends on the shot, because, you know, if you're doing a really a scene, that's a lot of acting and emotion, or just, you know, that, to me is, is getting that, that level of acting and believability in the emotions is what makes a really good scene. If it's more of a BNC kind of continuity shot, it's just making sure that the mechanics are believable the way it is, right. And just that it's, it's just, it's just work, that it's, it's believable, and I think, yeah, but, you know, it's for me, it's I always tried to put myself in my character's situation. And, you know, how would I feel, you know, I mean, I try to, you know, this is, just, to me, it's more about the acting process. And the drawing again, drawing, our computer is just the means to the end, it's having that the heart, you know, an animator is a unique artist, and that they're both an artist or technician. But they're also an actor, and I would tend to default more on the acting side, you know, because I don't know why that's just what's always I've, you know, find that, you know, amazing, you know, and I know how I reacted to the characters that I was seeing. And I'm hoping that people would have had the same experience, seeing some of the characters that I've brought to life, because that's what I've tried to inject into them as not real. They're not real bandys not real aerials, not real, but they're believable. You, you feel Bambi lost in the woods, you feel for Ariel's frustration with her dad, because as humans, we, we identify with those situations, but yeah, they're not real, but the emotions are real. And that's, that's the magic of acting, whether you're doing it yourself on stage, or a movie or creating animation. I think that's, that's, so I tend to think of myself more as an actor, then, than an artist and some guys go the opposite way. They're the art is the end all be all, you know, and that's, you know, that's a debatable issue. But it's still as what you end up with on the screen. And if it's servicing, like an actor, servicing this, the needs of the scene and the sequence and the story, in creating the bringing these characters to life that the directors have an a vision for. That's the job of an animator.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 49:19
There was one shot and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was Frank Thomas that did it and Pinocchio, where lampwork is turning into the trunk, he was pulling up against the wall, and he's really frightened. And he was saying that he felt the fear in himself and that he was drawn through his own body into the pages that, that sense of fear. And I feel that there's a bit more of a distance between the animator and a computer these days. So I was wondering what your advice would be for CG people to sort of get that motion into the computer. I think it's a little bit easier when you're drawing.
Mark Henn 49:48
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a different tactile feeling moving a mouse than hunched over, drawing a piece of paper and and Getting that drawing it's I don't know, hug your computer? I don't know, I really don't I mean, I I did it on one film with the Robinsons? And yeah, there is definitely kind of a distance between you and and the computer but I don't know I could said I think it's just you have to kind of have a mindset that you just that's just the tool, and you just have to get past that and really focus on what's fun is that course you know you, you render your scene out and you get a, you get to see something right away. So and if you're you're seeing the life coming out of that character, I think that's where you start having that connection. And, you know, again, then it gets back to that. Second, he you know, you're evaluating, you know, is is, is are the poses, right? Or is the emotion right? Is the weight, right? Is the movement, right? Is it over animated under I mean, it's just all those things you're, you're evaluating as you're looking at your own scenes or others if you're in a supervising role. But I think you just have to kind of, it's not going to be the same, it's not going to be the same as making a drawing. There's just, they're just two different beasts. And you just have to get past that mindset and get to the point where, as you see your character starting to move and come to life is that what do you have in mind since See, that's where I want to try to help the newer people. This helped them to work on their thinking process. And because I always had something in mind. And even if you had a very clear idea, you always do the P part you plan, you put down thumbnails, and you make sure because you never know you may go, Wait, what if I did this and you try this, what my instructor Cal Arts can O'Connor used to call thinking around the problem, you may end up right back where you started, but at least you've gone around and maybe you stop partway around, and you come up with a better idea. So that's just, you know, part of the problem. And it's not just as simple as running down to the video reference room and shooting yourself acting it out. I mean, that's a tool. But I think there's there's a step being missed if you don't somehow, you know, it's how you feel as the as an actor as an as an individual and your sensibilities and your world experience. And you're bringing that to the scene since you're you're animating I think that's, that's important. It isn't just simply going down gyrating in front of the camera and then just copying it's really it's, it's hard to put into words, but that's the best way I can explain that. There's just it's what you want to bring to this art form and to this studio in the films we do here. Yeah.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 53:21
I'm babbling No. makes sense to me. I hope you have a good battery. Running battery. I mean, if your body language really gets into it, too, but it felt like you were getting out what was inside your into the image and what is it what you feel what that character is portraying on the screen? Is that what you're feeling?
Mark Henn 53:39
Yeah, yeah. And that's said it's, you know, making a drawing with that in mind. It's just like creating any kind of art. You just you there's something in you that is you got to get out. Yeah. And it's Yeah, it's it's a different experience working on the computer, but it's the same idea. It's the same idea.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 54:01
So I was watching Winnie the Pooh recently. I love it. It looks like it's so much fun to watch it look like a ton of fun to animate. That was a ball. Yeah, it seemed like it came through that you guys had great fun working on. I mean, you worked with like all the other cheating guys like Erica work and I think Andres station number was on two, I was wondering how much influence you guys had on each of those characters? And maybe Did you I don't know we should reference or did you guys come together in a room and shoot reference? So characters events and off each other? Because each guy had a character right?
Mark Henn 54:30
Yeah, we we've worked pretty much the standard standard operating procedure for 2d. I don't think we ever we don't we didn't come together in a room and shoot reference or anything but we as the supervisors on those characters, we the one thing that we do and to do that they really don't do in CG is is work turnover, I mean, they do it. But I don't think that the conversation, particularly from an animation point of view is quite the same. But we spent a lot of time they'd say, Okay, this sequence is ready to come out a story phase, and to go into layout. So this is your last, we have this last chance before it goes into the layout, to really look at it. Talk about ideas, talk about, oh, wouldn't it be funny if you know what if this happened, and you, you kind of mold and shape and kick and pull? And some somebody comes up with an idea? And you're like, Oh, that's funny. What have you did this? I mean, it's just so it's just really great meeting where ideas are kicking around. And for me, I'm already looking at the sequence. And in my head, I'm animating, I mean, I'm already planning. What if, even if I don't get the shots, I'm already thinking about how I would animate them if I you know, and so at least, you know, because part of my job as a supervisor is to then convey that to a crew member who's like yourself, if you're rattling off mating poo, and you're undermining crew, I could say why this is what needs to happen. And this is, you know, but you know, have some fun with it. That's usually I always tell tattletale that I because I really want to encourage that self expression for each person, I don't want clones of myself. And I, you know, that's never been my goal. My goal is to hopefully create, I guess, free thinkers, and as far as and but, you know, given, you know, what I've learned, and then hopefully pass that along. But yeah, we didn't. You know, we we, we do, you know, go into Dory meetings, sometimes, but the workbook was a really key meeting for all of us to really get in and start thinking about the filmmaking, the acting, entertainment, you know, all this would be funnier in our you come in and say, Oh, you know, I was thinking about this, and I had this really funny idea. And everybody may go, Yeah, that's a great idea. Or they may go now, that doesn't work. Because if you do this, then this, I mean, for whatever reason, but it's, you have that opportunity. And I don't think it's quite the same on the in the CG world, which is unfortunate. That, I don't think that's talked about much. It's more about just getting the sequence ready to turn over to layout. But we I know, in the 2d world, that was a really important and very vibrant and exciting meeting to go through. For all of us, of all the meetings. I mean, we had a lot of meetings, but that was the one he didn't want to miss it. Yeah, you can miss all the other ones. But that was the one that everybody I think, really look forward to. I think every shot in that film is something very sweet about it, and very sincere. Well, it was a lot of fun, because, you know, we all grew up with poor, we all knew these characters, or at least, you know, and now to, you know, to a match the standard that was set before us, and then be to, you know, bring our own ideas to to these characters. I mean, certainly the last thing I any of us, or I wanted to hear was people think, Oh, I was just you know, because there have been some really not so good poos.
Since that didn't come out of our department know, the first three came out of here. And then this was, everything else is done by TV and other thing and they're just, you know, farmed out. Just clean everybody that will pues simple. And he just kind of, you know, he kind of got dumbed down in a lot of ways and poo is not dumb. I mean, he's innocent, and naive. But there's a lot of sophisticated things going on. And, and certainly some of the best animation that came out of this studio was poor and Piglet and Tigger. So we all had that standard in front of us, but you know, these characters allow you to kind of step in and bring yourself to the to their, their their world. So yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 59:52
It's even more so themselves, even who was watching telnet on the doorway. It was so simple. He's just staring at things And like, it's so entertaining, it's so simple. There's not a whole lot going on. But you can see he's thinking, yeah, and it was really entertaining shot.
Mark Henn 1:00:08
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. But yeah, that's, that starts with a good story and and Don, and the star crew crafted a really fun story. But you know, and then we had to take it to the next level. You don't want to, you know, when you get handed the baton and the production, you don't want to drop it? Yeah, you want to make sure that you've you pass it on better than the previous step. So
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:00:40
as a supervisor, do you feel I know, better than the rest of them? They were sort of their characters were already there. But do you feel like you can get it even more important, the evolution of a character through a movie? Or is that more?
Mark Henn 1:00:53
Well, certainly, on a on an original character. We have I mean, that's part of our, our responsibility. If you don't are doing the, you know, character design itself. I mean, we have some really great character designers. So it's a very collaborative thing. And I I've, I've kind of likened it to a test pilot. You know, you have all these engineers and people that build the planes and put them together, and then they hand them to a pilot and say, all right, and I'll take it out and put up their paces. And that's a lot of ways that's what a supervisor does. But sometimes you're very much involved with the designing and all that. So it just depends, it varies. But yeah, you kind of are the standard bearer for that character, you you set a standard. And then the directors look at you and say, you know, your job is to not only do your work, but to make sure that everybody else's is up to par.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:02:04
Is there a certain character you felt like you had a lot of influence?
Mark Henn 1:02:10
Yeah, Milan was one. I mean, most of most of the characters. Area wasn't so much. I mean, I started down a path but then I started to head of Glenn on it. And then he came in and he kind of refined the the actual model of her but you know, also but we we split the footage for the most part or he you know, we both kind of set the set the standard on that we'll do take care one, which was an unusual case. But yeah, you won was very, very special. Jasmine, Simba, surprisingly, went through really quick. As far as nailing down the design.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:06
I just, I just
Mark Henn 1:03:09
love that character. And I was in Florida through most of those films. And so I was doing just a lot of designs and things and then I'd fly out here for a meeting and, and I remember that that was we went and showed the boards of Simba and Jeffrey just gonna, yeah, I like that. And Don Hahn turned to me. And when you're done, you're good. We got a character design. Really? That was fast. That was quick. So yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:49
But yeah, that I mean, that's,
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:03:55
um, as a superior Do you get to animate much now or, obviously not. But you know,
Mark Henn 1:04:00
not so much these days. But I, you know, I managed on as even as a supervisor to do the pardon the Lion King pond, but lion's share of whatever I said, it gets back to just wanting to have as much of myself in a movie to feel like I made a difference. And so that's just kind of the way it worked. This is always this kind of work that way. So
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:04:35
I heard grant talking about what makes a great pose for him when he talks all the time, but tilt rhythm and twist. Yeah. What makes a good pose for you? What should people keep in mind?
Mark Henn 1:04:46
Yeah, we'll see. You know, this, like I said, somebody prays that Glenn, could you do a talk about this, so you have to put it down so he came up with a twist. And so they said Margo talked about how to go fast, so I came up with speed. To me, it's about appeal. Feels a tricky thing to nail down. Yeah, I mean, an appeal is like sincerity is a very broad, because villains can be very appealing. It isn't just cutesy sexy. You know, it's there's appeal those, there's just a, and I use, I like to go to the dictionary a lot when I do lectures like that just to help give people a definition. And there's just a, there's just a, like ability to appeal, but I have to look it up for you. But But yeah, I think there's a simplicity a clarity and appeal to a good pose. How's that? That's good.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:54
We got time on tape.
Mark Henn 1:05:57
publicity, clarity, appeal. All right. There you go. You've got it first. That's the first time I've ever exclusive. Yeah.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:06:09
Um, so is this something you can suggest for young animators when you're starting out to set themselves up for success? How do we just make him Sound good?
Mark Henn 1:06:17
Yeah, well, certainly you have to be proficient with your tool. I mean, for us, it was being a capable artist, a draftsman a drawer. So that you could communicate, you know, you the most frustrating thing was having an idea in your head in your heart, that you just could never get it on paper. That's so frustrating. So whether it's drawing or manipulating a rig on a computer, you want to be proficient enough so that that that tool is not in the way. So if I was starting over again, I'd certainly be learning the tool as best I could. And it doesn't necessarily mean you know, going to MIT and getting a technical degree and all that, but knowing your way around it well enough to, to wear it. That's not a hindrance to the process of acting. Because that's really what it's about. And but what's really neat with the computer is that the people that I've worked with here, and I'm sure it's elsewhere, but they're everybody is very, very, very giving in terms of, I'm stuck, I don't know how to do this and elbow, let me show you, here's a button, here's a shortcut, I mean, and you have to come up with your own argument, because there's so many buttons and so many ways to work, you have to come up with your own way to work. So the better you know, the tool, and can formulate your develop a way of working your workflow is the big term that's going to free you. So you're when you're sitting there, you're not worried about how do I move this thing is, it's alright, you know, why am I moving in, it's about creating the performance is what's critical. So I think, know, your tool, as well as you can, is important, whether that's drawing your computer, and then just observe the world around you. You know, I mean, again, that's it gets back to just training yourself as an artist, you know, observe and look, and you make mental notes. I mean, some guys used to always carry sketchbooks with them, and I used to occasionally, but I just found just observing and watching whether it's the you know, every day to, you know, stuff you see on TV, and certainly nowadays with computer and the internet and YouTube, there's all kinds of things, I mean, I get a big kick out of watching, like, you know, funny home videos, because this is really funny stuff that happens that you never know, he could pull an idea and, and, and he will have a place to use it in a in a film one day or your character may go through a similar situation. So I think that's important. It's just training, you know, be aware of the world around you and observe people types, how they move, how they talk, how they gesture. I mean, that's just because acting is just kind of a mirror to the society and culture. And
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:09:49
I've seen some things happen in life, but you just think, you know, if you wrote that it wouldn't seem real.
Mark Henn 1:09:54
Right? Yeah. That happens all the time. I know cuz that's what I think, you know, I know Frank and Ollie and that generation they did that. And because it is all part of an effort to make their animation more believable, more sincere. So then I guess of all the Disney movies that you didn't work out, which is you wish you had? Oh, well, there aren't many.
I don't know, because that was a hard thing. When we got to the point of production where we started splitting productions that bugged me. I really hated the idea of missing a production. And I've only not worked on a handful. Hercules would have been fun. I would have done maybe they would have put me on. I would have done her. And being the bird not beating the beast,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:03
hunchback
Mark Henn 1:11:06
would have been interesting all over again, they probably would have ended up with Esmeralda. Which she wasn't a really big part, but I probably would have ended up with her. A lot. I think I probably would have gravitated towards maybe wanting to do quazi moto would have been fine. But James did a great job with him. So yeah, I didn't work on hunchback. I didn't work on Hercules. Tarzan would have been fun. I'm not sure what I would have ended up on that one. Well, Jane, what am I hanging? Yeah, there's a girl there. Guess who's going to be number one in line? Yeah, I probably would have ended up doing Jane Tarzan. But yeah, I don't know that there were any films that I can hide getting brokenhearted that I didn't get to work on. But I mean, I you know, Hercules because Ron and john were balls, and I love working with them.
I mean, every films a challenge, every character is a challenge. But you know, I obviously I couldn't do it. I mean, I've done double duty on a few films, different productions. And it's doable. It's tough. But I probably wasn't doing you know, I wasn't able to give everything as much full attention as I would have liked. But that's the way you know, there's things you wish you could do over the years. Now. Yeah, we're pretty good.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:12:55
We had a question from one of the listeners and it's related to your cell phone and I'm a women. Selena sounds Berg asks as my many women as well as you do, do you have any action analysis tips or animating for animating female characters like subtle differences in hips, gestures, ankles, wrists and so forth?
Mark Henn 1:13:14
Well, I don't have any formula to it. I I grew up with two sisters. I'm two brothers. So I suppose in one sense, I'm, I've been around, I guess I've always felt more comfortable with girls, just as friends and able to talk to relate to. That's just my background. But you know, you you observe. Definitely boys and girls are different and physically and that. But again, it gets back to that appeal. You can overdo, particularly with facial expressions. You can you can overdo it to where it becomes unappealing. And I think you have to find that balance of having characters because it doesn't matter who you're dealing with. But particularly with with girl characters. You have to be very careful that you don't make them unappealing because you've got too much going on in the face. So that's, that's it's just finding that balance. But you observe, you know, women tend to be very gestural and talk with their hands a lot. And I mean, it's just just, you know, those kinds of things. And again, I put myself in their shoes, not that it's, it's just in terms of how I would feel, you know, you know, I felt how Ariel felt with struggling with a parent you know, as a teenager and that frustration that that I love you dad But I hate being cooped up here, you know? And same with the jasmine, you know, I love you, Daddy, but I hate being pinned up in this castle, you know, and you just, you understand that and I think those kind of emotions are are universal to anybody whether you're a boy or girl, but that certainly there's, there's things that you, you have to be careful of. Again, it's mostly you know, not gobbly goo pick up an expression to where it's unappealing. And simple when we say simple clarity and an appeal is critical. But the added I don't have any tricks or gimmicks that way. Because it because each of them are different. So yeah, I can't can't that's always been the challenges, you know, you come off of airy all the next thing I know, I'm doing Belle. And then after Belle, I'm doing Jasmine. So I'm like, I can't just keep I can't repeat myself. I mean, I have to, you know, I have to make Jasmine, Jasmine and not Belle reincarnated. And Belle can't just be Ariel on land. You know? I mean, it's just, that's the acting challenge. It's all about acting.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:16:19
Well, there's another question from Bonnie both. I think I'm going to pronounce his name wrong. But he asks, what is expected of new animators looking to go into feature? And what thoughts do you have on the industry at the moment in terms of opportunities?
Mark Henn 1:16:33
Well, as far as the industry right now goes, it's it's kind of good news and bad news. I was telling these high school kids a few weeks ago, I was talking to them. The good news is, is there's a lot more opportunities, I think it's more studios are doing animation. And largely because of the computer tool, there seems to be a much more animation gaming, of course, has really exploded, so a lot of people have come through the gaming industry. So there seems to be a lot more opportunities. When I started, it was pretty much Disney was it, you know, and if you didn't get there, you weren't going to get anywhere, really. So there's a lot of opportunity. That's the good news, the bad news is there, that just means there's a lot more people and a lot more competition out there. So you you've got more people to compete with, when I grew up, and was saying I want to grow up be a Disney animator, that was not the norm for most young people, you know, 30, you know, 30 plus years ago, but nowadays, that's not unusual. And so therefore, you you've got a lot more competition out there. So just, you can't worry about that. You just have to train yourself, get the best education you can and put yourself in the best, you know, possible light position to get yourself a job. It's tough it is. But that's that's the reality. And that's I you know, I have to be truthful, from what I I've seen, and I hear from talking and the idea of staying in one studio your entire career is, is kind of a dinosaur too. I mean, people move around. And because again, the good thing is because they have choice, you know, they can go to Disney, or they can go to DreamWorks. So they can bounce over to blue sky, or they can go up to Pixar or wherever I mean, Sony, whatever. I mean, there's just a lot more opportunity plus the whole, you know, visual effects. And then there's a whole community of visual effects animators that are animators, they're just doing slightly different thing. So that's why I say quality is you know, is going to be key. Did that answer the question? Did I answer your question?
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:19:11
On the currency I've left I'd love to talk about assurance that you worked on like how to set up your home theater about nothing and all those they seem like so much fun again to animate on the fun of it comes through the screen. Yeah. So can you talk about a little bit what you did on it and when you supervised on?
Mark Henn 1:19:27
Well, yeah, I worked on I worked on Yeah, you mentioned Nassi, and you worked on mentioned the goofy thing and then making sure recently get a horse. I mean, it's just it's just always fun to animate. And it's fun to animate our standard characters, which, like the goofy thing was a ball. There again, it's you've you've got such, you know, amazing standard of what's gone in the past. And you just want to make sure that you're at the same level and then bringing your own voice to to the character. And it was such a fun story idea. And then the Mickey course was really interesting, because we were going back to this 30 style of animation, which meant, essentially forgetting everything that we've spent years learning, and just throwing it out the window or setting it aside for now. And just basically, you just move things from A to B, not a lot of slow in and slow out. So it was just very simple. But that was kind of fun to be able to capture that. That look, you know, and yeah, so again, yeah, it was a challenge that way. So. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. It's always fun. Do you search it? We'd like to work with no. doing your own thing here. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much preoccupied, I guess, being the mentor now, instead of I mean, I, I'm always, you know, we're our own worst critics. And I always, you know, whenever I get a chance, I always want to do better than what I did the last time. So it's, it's just that constant drive as an artist just to be better whenever something comes along. So you continue to do this short time to year I will say with depends on the short depends on the director and I know the new short that's in production. Now. I don't think it's it's not a 2d, short. It's a CG short, but that's that's what the director envisioned. I mean, it'll have a completely different look and art direction, and then the Mickey thing, and then just as the Mickey thing was completely different than paper, man. I mean, that's the beauty of doing shorts. You can experiment and try all different kinds of things. So Patrick has a very unique artistic sense. He's the directing, and this is George Osborne. Yeah. So that's about all I can tell you about that.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:22:06
There's one thing I want to get in just for people might want to go see it. You sculpt a lot. And you sculpted the life size of the right, but I've
Mark Henn 1:22:15
done a couple of statues. Yeah. the Wright brothers in Dayton. And that was done for the centennial flight. Celebrate celebration in 2003, which marked the 100th anniversary of flight. So let's and is just across the river, from downtown Dayton and a little little park called dedes point, and it's just right across. There's a bridge right across Dayton has a minor league baseball team. They're called the dragon. So you just kind of cross the bridge from the dragons baseball stadium, which is downtown Dayton. And it's a it's a convergence of two rivers, the Mad River and the Stillwater and it kind of creates this point. And then the two rivers verge come and create the Miami River. And they're located right there in Dayton. And then the other one is a civil war Drummer Boy, I did hear a new Hall in California, at a veterans Plaza that was dedicated to the veterans, all the US wars in that. So I did a Drummer Boy for that. And that was kind of fun.
Sandra Ni Chonaola 1:23:31
Time, but can I ask you a quick question? Yeah. Because I like to ask this to everybody if I can. What was the best piece of advice you feel like helped you in your career that you've gotten from somebody earlier on than you'd like to pass? Oh, well,
Mark Henn 1:23:50
the thing that comes to mind was something I told you earlier, I struggled with my drawing. And I, at one point, mustered up enough courage to go upstairs. Zoom were on the main lot.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:06
And
Mark Henn 1:24:09
Frank and Ollie were kind of my heroes and Frank particularly was one of my I love his work. And I got up enough courage upstairs and talk to him about some things and I talked to him about drawing and he gave me I think the best advice about the new drawing which and then you can apply it to computer animation as well. And that he said, there's always going to be somebody that draws better than you. There's always just, that's just a given and he was he was kind of picked on for his drawing. I love his drawings but he was people teased him and picked on him and they kind of you know, Milton, those guys kind of picked on him a little bit. But but that Was his advice, he said, something, there's always going to be somebody that draws better than you. But it's what you're doing with those drawings. It's what you know, if you're, if you're creating animation and the entertainment that and he was speaking, because you know, obviously worked with Walt but doing what you know Walt was expecting in the scenes, then that's what was the most important. Again, the drawing was a tool drawing was a means to an end. And if I can say the same thing with the computer, there's always going to be probably somebody that technically is much more, you know, savvy than then you might be on a computer, but if you know the tool well enough, and you know what you want to do with it. I think that's that's the important thing. And you know, you can always get help drawing, you can always get somebody to show you which button to push. But if it's, it's really boils down to, you know, your vision of how you want to bring a character to life is what's really important. So it gets back to the acting. That's what I said. Computer the drawing as a means to an end and the end is the performance. So
Unknown Speaker 1:26:17
how's that? That's great. All right. Perfect.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:21
You're very welcome.
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